Do we need Churches (Religious Institutions)?
I do not think we need them.
Free religious teachings and religions from institutions monopolizing them - and we have a better world.
OR, do not limit the number of institutions... let there be billions of churches, one customized church for each individual...
Just a thought
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Anand Krishna on -
My dear, dear Marilyn... i think we are getting there, we are getting where Jesus stands in all His Majesty and Glory, reminding us to love God, and love our next door neighbor with all our heart, our mind, our soul.... If each one of us actually listen to Him and begin to love our next door neighbor - all our problems are solved.. No more PeaceNext, but PeaceNOW!
Love n blessing, Marilyn...
Marilyn Louise Copeland said:Dear Anand,
Just wanted to add another comment on the topic of churches and if we need them.There is a movement within the Catholic Church where people gather in smaller groups known as Small Church Communities. They come together to prayer, read the scriptures,share life's stories, love and companion one another on the spiritual journey within a home environment. Sometimes there is a Charity or project which is supported by the group. It seems to met a need for deeper friendships and experience of God's love.
There are also within most other Churches I would think many small groups who gather for various reasons - Prayer, Meditation, Social Justice, Charity work etc.
I can't help but wonder ,if the old " Dinosaur " ever did keel over and die as we know it, if it might be these small groups who will be the Church of the future, in an entirely new form - ? Perhaps then ,doctrine, dogma , heirarchy,etc. will become a thing of the past - who knows ? And maybe a much simpler living out of faith based on Love ,and acceptance of all religions will come about. Won't it be interesting and exciting to watch and see !!
This discussion just goes on and on Anand - Look what you have started !!! Love and warm Blessings, Marilyn -
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Permalink Reply by Anand Krishna on
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Rev. Douglas and Maya - i am enjoying your communication... As i wrote to Marilyn, soon we all are getting where Jesus stands in all His GLORY AND MAJESTY, where the entire universe is His House, His Church, His Temple, His Mosque, His Vihara, His Synagogue..... God's Face, says Al Qur'an is in the east, and in the west - to whichever direction you turn, there God IS!
Kaba, and Kashi, Jerusalem and Gaya - all are here, now.... if only we have eyes to see!
Love
Marilyn Louise Copeland said:Dear Anand,
Just wanted to add another comment on the topic of churches and if we need them.There is a movement within the Catholic Church where people gather in smaller groups known as Small Church Communities. They come together to prayer, read the scriptures,share life's stories, love and companion one another on the spiritual journey within a home environment. Sometimes there is a Charity or project which is supported by the group. It seems to met a need for deeper friendships and experience of God's love.
There are also within most other Churches I would think many small groups who gather for various reasons - Prayer, Meditation, Social Justice, Charity work etc.
I can't help but wonder ,if the old " Dinosaur " ever did keel over and die as we know it, if it might be these small groups who will be the Church of the future, in an entirely new form - ? Perhaps then ,doctrine, dogma , heirarchy,etc. will become a thing of the past - who knows ? And maybe a much simpler living out of faith based on Love ,and acceptance of all religions will come about. Won't it be interesting and exciting to watch and see !!
This discussion just goes on and on Anand - Look what you have started !!! Love and warm Blessings, Marilyn -
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Permalink Reply by Maynard on -
Dear Friends,
These institutions which don't suit you were created by and are sustained by people very similar to yourselves, generally for purposes very familiar to your own. Surely they don't make any effort to directly interfere with your lives, and will be content if you ignore them.
"We" in this environment is of infinite quantity and quality, and possibly has no useful applicability at all.
The word "Need" in this environment is more interesting, in that while we do each all have different individualized needs, there yet probably IS something common between the different needs amongst us which keep us here at PeaceNext. I'll even suggest, prematurely, that the common need is ..... commonality, or in others' word "unity", or in my word "harmony", but ultimately in common is our deep longing, even need, for "peace".
I'm delighted to welcome ANY institution which promotes peace.
(and have no intention of joining them all :) -
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Permalink Reply by Anand Krishna on
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My dear, dear Maynard, i love your last line "(and have no intention of joining them all :)" - PLEASE DON'T Maynard, we will lose a beautiful soul... But, allow me to join you in not joining them :-)
Love n blsgs
Maynard said:Dear Friends,
These institutions which don't suit you were created by and are sustained by people very similar to yourselves, generally for purposes very familiar to your own. Surely they don't make any effort to directly interfere with your lives, and will be content if you ignore them.
"We" in this environment is of infinite quantity and quality, and possibly has no useful applicability at all.
The word "Need" in this environment is more interesting, in that while we do each all have different individualized needs, there yet probably IS something common between the different needs amongst us which keep us here at PeaceNext. I'll even suggest, prematurely, that the common need is ..... commonality, or in others' word "unity", or in my word "harmony", but ultimately in common is our deep longing, even need, for "peace".
I'm delighted to welcome ANY institution which promotes peace.
(and have no intention of joining them all :) -
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Permalink Reply by Swarha Wia on -
there is a division even competing from one to another church. let free this business in the name of religion. let put love as foundation, we will walk together, hand in hand. not only get new building every year.
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Permalink Reply by Anand Krishna on
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How true Wia... we are busy constructing church buildings, instead of building a church within!
Love n blsgs
Swarha Wia said:there is a division even competing from one to another church. let free this business in the name of religion. let put love as foundation, we will walk together, hand in hand. not only get new building every year. -
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Permalink Reply by Maynard on
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Dear Friends,
I am inspired to post an addendum :)
One additional benefit of institutions is that they help to provide us with a common representative voice; and this is also my vision for the Parliament.
I'd like us to inspire these institutions to publicly and forcefully (with non-violent compassion) insist (of the world governments, and of their consituents) upon the brotherhood and peace and social justice which are demanded by their (our) individual and common faith[s].
By way of example, we have a very vocal, and influential "religious right" in the United States who might hopefully be brought to focus on the anti-militarism and social justice demanded by their loudly self-proclaimed lord Jesus Christ. Their institutions can be of the greatest value in making this focus adjustment, because they really don't listen to anybody else. (well, other than Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Beck, and the other partisan ideologues of the establishment media, all of which are institutions themselves, and loudly overflowing with fear and loathing.)
The Pope and Dali Lama are pretty good at speaking out for our common desires, and provide an example of where our activism should not be to dismantle their institutions or pulpits, but to make ways for their voices to have more audience and more impact.
In short, institutions in their leadership and their membership can bring essential focus and voice to the common cause, which is perhaps the most compelling force in our creation of them in the first place. And in the case of religion, these institutions are very well distributed and fairly well organized.
"Religious communities are the largest and best-organized civil institutions in the world, claiming the allegiance of billions across race, class, and national divides." --Religions for Peace
For this reason, I'd like to strengthen, not demolish, their resolve to represent us.
in Peace,
--Maynard -
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Permalink Reply by Anand Krishna on
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Maynard, my dear - you wrote "Their institutions can be of the greatest value in making this focus adjustment". There is a clear hope here.
The greatest challenge is how to convince those who feel that their "focus" is divinely ordained, and any adjustment would go against the Will and the Law of God.
In a country like mine, where the number of religions recognized by the state are limited to 6, where diversity is given a lip service only - there are many more adjustments urgently needed. We are working on this.... so we can catch the American and European train in time :-)
Love n peace...
cite>Maynard said:Dear Friends,
I am inspired to post an addendum :)
One additional benefit of institutions is that they help to provide us with a common representative voice; and this is also my vision for the Parliament.
I'd like us to inspire these institutions to publicly and forcefully (with non-violent compassion) insist (of the world governments, and of their consituents) upon the brotherhood and peace and social justice which are demanded by their (our) individual and common faith[s].
We have a very vocal, and influential "religious right" in the United States who might hopefully be brought to focus on the anti-militarism and social justice demanded by their loudly self-proclaimed lord Jesus Christ. Their institutions can be of the greatest value in making this focus adjustment, because they really don't listen to anybody else. (well, other than Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Beck, and the other partisan ideologues of the establishment media, all of which are institutions themselves, and loudly overflowing with fear and loathing.)
In short, institutions can bring essential focus and voice to the common cause, which is perhaps the most compelling force in our creation of them in the first place.
For this reason, I'd like to strengthen, not demolish, their resolve to represent us.
in Peace,
--Maynard -
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Permalink Reply by innerpeace on
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I have seen the works of the Church in Africa and now the Works of Islam in the sudan. I admit that much of my own lack of self esteem came from the values that the Christian Church gave me as a girl as to my sin filled nature based on the Eve story. I can only wonder if the self destructive actions of many come from the teaching of the church. If we are going for spiritually development, then the church is not the place to get it. Only judgement and condemnation is the only meal they serve. Not even love can be found. Look to the situation in Haiti as an indicatior of the lack of respect the church has for people of color and their culture.
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Permalink Reply by Anand Krishna on
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Innerpeace, i agree with you - LET US CHANGE this situation.... Let us awaken the Christ within, by whatever name we invoke that One Power! Love n blsgs
innerpeace said:I have seen the works of the Church in Africa and now the Works of Islam in the sudan. I admit that much of my own lack of self esteem came from the values that the Christian Church gave me as a girl as to my sin filled nature based on the Eve story. I can only wonder if the self destructive actions of many come from the teaching of the church. If we are going for spiritually development, then the church is not the place to get it. Only judgement and condemnation is the only meal they serve. Not even love can be found. Look to the situation in Haiti as an indicatior of the lack of respect the church has for people of color and their culture. -
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Permalink Reply by dominggus koro on
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Jesus or Muhammad or Krishna is (are) sealed in watertight-compartment of doctrines and dogmas and yet they are fossilized, completely dead. That's why Jesus is like a rubbish that spreads very bad odor to those who're not "Christians", and so is Muhammad is a troublemaker for other section of societies. Those Master, since they are "confined" in certain institutions which have rules of games to play and abide by as well as rites to perform, emanate energy that disintegrates and separate man from man, man from any creature ("dead or living") and man from this very Universe. So these "Love-turn-into-Blood and Flesh" Masters become the curse!
Love or KASIH in Indonesian which is the quintessence of their teachings is disregarded. We are far crazier about glorifying and worshiping scriptures (the so-called holy ones) than seeing other fellow religious groups as people on the course of heading toward God though taking different paths/ways. In that very scriptures interpretations are born and reborn and reborn and on and on. Scriptures do not give birth spiritual individuals but just scholars and intellectuals, priests and monks, ulemas and rabbis who in turn play as go between men and God. And to play the role as such they need institutions, well religious institutions.
As an institution religion is no longer functioning as a means for spiritual achievement but it becomes a political institution. And politic, as has been wrongly valued and understood, is all about how to cheat others by quoting holy words and giving promises of heaven and damsels and anything "divine". In this point religion is just a pain killer. People religiously go to church or mosque, for instance, just to perform rites and listen to those "divided" preachers, and when they're out of their house of worship their true nature of animal-with-human-garb surface again. More forlornly is that a house of worship become a podium used to propagate hatred and fighting against "infidels".
So, I do agree with what has been questioned (and proposed) by Bapak Anand Krishna that we do not need any church. Ask Vatican and any priesthood congregations to rethink about existence of church. Or if we're to let them (read: churches) stay, then re-orientate its role and functions. The Naghamdi scripts and ancient "lontars" found in Himis monastery must be brought up to public, and true story of Jesus must be made public too. May be Bapak Anand has another thoughts to cope with he has proposed and questioned about.
Thank You Bapak -
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dominggus koro said:Jesus or Muhammad or Krishna is (are) sealed in watertight-compartment of doctrines and dogmas and yet they are fossilized, completely dead. That's why Jesus is like a rubbish that spreads very bad odor to those who're not "Christians", and so is Muhammad is a troublemaker for other section of societies. Those Master, since they are "confined" in certain institutions which have rules of games to play and abide by as well as rites to perform, emanate energy that disintegrates and separate man from man, man from any creature ("dead or living") and man from this very Universe. So these "Love-turn-into-Blood and Flesh" Masters become the curse!
Love or KASIH in Indonesian which is the quintessence of their teachings is disregarded. We are far crazier about glorifying and worshiping scriptures (the so-called holy ones) than seeing other fellow religious groups as people on the course of heading toward God though taking different paths/ways. In that very scriptures interpretations are born and reborn and reborn and on and on. Scriptures do not give birth spiritual individuals but just scholars and intellectuals, priests and monks, ulemas and rabbis who in turn play as go between men and God. And to play the role as such they need institutions, well religious institutions.
As an institution religion is no longer functioning as a means for spiritual achievement but it becomes a political institution. And politic, as has been wrongly valued and understood, is all about how to cheat others by quoting holy words and giving promises of heaven and damsels and anything "divine". In this point religion is just a pain killer. People religiously go to church or mosque, for instance, just to perform rites and listen to those "divided" preachers, and when they're out of their house of worship their true nature of animal-with-human-garb surface again. More forlornly is that a house of worship become a podium used to propagate hatred and fighting against "infidels".
So, I do agree with what has been questioned (and proposed) by Bapak Anand Krishna that we do not need any church. Ask Vatican and any priesthood congregations to rethink about existence of church. Or if we're to let them (read: churches) stay, then re-orientate its role and functions. The Naghamdi scripts and ancient "lontars" found in Himis monastery must be brought up to public, and true story of Jesus must be made public too. May be Bapak Anand has another thoughts to cope with he has proposed and questioned about.
Thank You Bapak -
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