Has God anything more to say to us?
Is it possible that if another Teacher were sent by God into the world that the world would recognize Him? What would our requirements of such a Teacher be? In mounting such a set of requirements, would we not be dictating to God?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Soma on -
Betsy salutations to the Divinity within you. I feel God is speaking in all scriptures past and present because He/She is
centered everywhere within people who are good and bad. The problem is we are not listening so we just need to throw open the windows of our soul. Forgiveness is intrinsic and is part of the process to open the windows. My hands do wrong, but I do not hate them. They will help me thrive.
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Permalink Reply by Betsy Whitfill on -
And salutations to the Divinity within you, Soma.
Yes, and it does seem that in a very broad and general way, people everywhere are beginning to note the common threads which connect all the traditions. They all are, we might consider, paths on the Way to God. There may even be a discussion of whether they are, together, along with all the fields of human endeavor,(art, science, philosophy, for example) Ways to God. It might further be discussed whether instead of competition among traditions there might arise support for the notion of "doing your best" on whatever path you find yourself.
Thus, dear Soma, might arise understanding, forgiveness...as you suggest, and the Joy of "open windows" to the Soul which lives in each of us.
Namaste,
Betsy
Soma said:Betsy salutations to the Divinity within you. I feel God is speaking in all scriptures past and present because He/She is
centered everywhere within people who are good and bad. The problem is we are not listening so we just need to throw open the windows of our soul. Forgiveness is intrinsic and is part of the process to open the windows. My hands do wrong, but I do not hate them. They will help me thrive.
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Permalink Reply by Betsy Whitfill on
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Despite the fact that the World did not end on May 21, as predicted by some, does there seem to be a broad resonance with the notion of Endings, Apocalypse, God's doing something of an intervention in the human condition?
What might that mean? What might it signify? Is it, as the media portrays, just a recurring random idea?
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Permalink Reply by Graham R Nicholson on -
Dear Betsy,
nice to see you are keeping the conversation going with perceptive questions.
In the infinity of time and space, an end is also a beginning. They usually overlap each other and are causally linked. Thus one civilization ends and another unfolds. One age draws to an end as another unfolds in a cyclical manner. One religion declines and looses its spiritual force as another emerges and renews the same spiritual message. Maybe one big bang eventually ends and another big bang occurs, perhaps there are contemporaneous big bangs and universes.
My point is that stories of a final ending, of something followed by nothing, are just fantasy, pure unscientific falacies and a misreading of religion. An ending is a beginning, and vica versa.
What is really required is a perceptive mind and spirit to be able to comprehend the cycles as they unfold and in which we are all contained and have our being. There are cycles within cycles, greater and lesser. It is an evolutionary process. Nothing is static. If we can try to understand this we will be better equiped to find reality, to make appropriate adjustments in our own life and to contribute constructively to the process. Forget the doom and gloom, it is counter productive and sometimes sheer destructive. Reread the scriptural texts in this light and you will begin to understand.
If one is really perceptive you will see in recorded human history an evolution away from a divided humanity towards a united humanity. This is the greater cycle on earth that we are now in. We are in the transition period. The signs are everywhere to see if one looks beyond the doom and gloom of the media and false prophets of doom. Humans started off from one small tribe that emerged out of Africa some 100,000 year ago. That tribe had much in common - language, culture, primitive religion, etc. But they dispersed around the word and diversity mushroomed, as the metaphorical story of the Tower of Babel tells us.
Now is the time for the coming together of humanity as one great global village - the closing of the cycle, the Oneness of humanity in all its aspects, economic, social, religious, even language. Get with it, as it is the main story of our time. It is a message of hope, love and unity. It is the most uplifting spiritual event that will send tingles down the spine. I believe it is the will of the one supreme God.
Graham
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Permalink Reply by Soma on
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I agree with Graham and think that consciousness gives a new concept of life that helps form a new humanity, both on the individual and community level. It helps people take on something more than the animal because it offers a faith that is both spiritually and socially concerned with the material well being of all of humanity. This is when man transcends biological evolution and starts spiritual evolution, a new field where people can realize new possibilities. Living beings or humans conscious of the whole evolutionary process gradually learn of their true identity, duty and destiny. Practical biological progress comes to an end here and evolution changes from a mechanical process to a conscious strategy.
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Permalink Reply by Betsy Whitfill on
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Dear Graham,
You wrote: "My point is that stories of a final ending, of something followed by nothing, are just fantasy, pure unscientific falacies and a misreading of religion. An ending is a beginning, and vica versa".
Would elaborate on "misreading of religion"?
Nice to talk with you again.
Betsy
Graham R Nicholson said:Dear Betsy,
nice to see you are keeping the conversation going with perceptive questions.
In the infinity of time and space, an end is also a beginning. They usually overlap each other and are causally linked. Thus one civilization ends and another unfolds. One age draws to an end as another unfolds in a cyclical manner. One religion declines and looses its spiritual force as another emerges and renews the same spiritual message. Maybe one big bang eventually ends and another big bang occurs, perhaps there are contemporaneous big bangs and universes.
My point is that stories of a final ending, of something followed by nothing, are just fantasy, pure unscientific falacies and a misreading of religion. An ending is a beginning, and vica versa.
What is really required is a perceptive mind and spirit to be able to comprehend the cycles as they unfold and in which we are all contained and have our being. There are cycles within cycles, greater and lesser. It is an evolutionary process. Nothing is static. If we can try to understand this we will be better equiped to find reality, to make appropriate adjustments in our own life and to contribute constructively to the process. Forget the doom and gloom, it is counter productive and sometimes sheer destructive. Reread the scriptural texts in this light and you will begin to understand.
If one is really perceptive you will see in recorded human history an evolution away from a divided humanity towards a united humanity. This is the greater cycle on earth that we are now in. We are in the transition period. The signs are everywhere to see if one looks beyond the doom and gloom of the media and false prophets of doom. Humans started off from one small tribe that emerged out of Africa some 100,000 year ago. That tribe had much in common - language, culture, primitive religion, etc. But they dispersed around the word and diversity mushroomed, as the metaphorical story of the Tower of Babel tells us.
Now is the time for the coming together of humanity as one great global village - the closing of the cycle, the Oneness of humanity in all its aspects, economic, social, religious, even language. Get with it, as it is the main story of our time. It is a message of hope, love and unity. It is the most uplifting spiritual event that will send tingles down the spine. I believe it is the will of the one supreme God.
Graham
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Permalink Reply by Betsy Whitfill on
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Soma,
Thank you for your contribution here. I wonder how consciousness can help people take on something more than the animal. I agree that the human kingdom is that unique bridge between the animal and the spiritual kingdoms because we are endowed with consciousness. But how to present this concept to those who are as yet on the first rungs of the ladder of religion?
Namaste,
Betsy
Soma said:
I agree with Graham and think that consciousness gives a new concept of life that helps form a new humanity, both on the individual and community level. It helps people take on something more than the animal because it offers a faith that is both spiritually and socially concerned with the material well being of all of humanity. This is when man transcends biological evolution and starts spiritual evolution, a new field where people can realize new possibilities. Living beings or humans conscious of the whole evolutionary process gradually learn of their true identity, duty and destiny. Practical biological progress comes to an end here and evolution changes from a mechanical process to a conscious strategy.
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Permalink Reply by Graham R Nicholson on
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Hi there again Betsy,
You ask me to elaborate on why end time prophesies are a misreading of religion. The one, infinite, all-powerful God has an infinite creation:
"The power of God is eternal and there have always been beings to manifest it; that is why we say that the worlds of God are infinite - there has never been a time when they did not exist. One can bring nothing forth from nothing, in the same way that which exists is never destroyed; the apparent annihilation is merely transmutation."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 107)
In nature there is composition and decomposition, not annhilation:
"For instance, the world of elements cannot be annihilated, because pure existence cannot be annihilated; and what we observe are but transformative modifications in the composition of the essence. The combination of different elements has formed physical man; when the composition is destroyed the elements will return to their component parts. Complete annihilation cannot take place."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 105)
The bounties of God are endless:
"A drop of the billowing ocean of His endless mercy hath adorned all creation with the ornament of existence, and a breath wafted from His peerless Paradise hath invested all beings with the robe of His sanctity and glory. A sprinkling from the unfathomed deep of His sovereign and all-pervasive Will hath, out of utter nothingness, called into being a creation which is infinite in its range and deathless in its duration. The wonders of His bounty can never cease, and the stream of His merciful grace can never be arrested. The process of His creation hath had no beginning, and can have no end."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 61)
The endless creation is a mirror of the Divine Kingdom:
"He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 166)
The ongoing task is to make this world a closer reflection of the Divine:
"What does Bahá'u'lláh hold to be the goal of the evolution of human consciousness? In the perspective of eternity, its purpose is that God should see, ever more clearly, the reflection of His perfections in the mirror of His creation, and that, in the words of Bahá'u'lláh:
...every man may testify, in himself, by himself, in the station of the
Manifestation of his Lord, that verily there is no God save Him, and that
every man may thereby win his way to the summit of realities, until none
shall contemplate anything whatsoever but that he shall see God therein."(Baha'i International Community, 1992 May 29, Statement on Baha'u'llah, p. 15)
But the Divine perfections are endless, so the task is never ending:
"As the divine bounties are endless, so human perfections are endless."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 328)
The physical life of individuals may end, but their spirit goes on, and the creation continues:
"The first life, which pertaineth to the elemental body, will come to an end, as hath been revealed by God: "Every soul shall taste of death." But the second life, which ariseth from the knowledge of God, knoweth no death, as hath been revealed aforetime: "Him will We surely quicken to a blessed life." "
(Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 48)
""When we realize that our physical bodies actually are composed of elements place in the earth by their creator, and which though the orderly processed of His Law are continually being used in the formation of beings, we can better understand the necessity for our physical bodies to be subjected to the gradual process of decomposition. As at the time of death, the real and eternal self of man, his soul, abandons its physical garment to soar in the realms of god, we may compare the body to a vehicle which has been used for the journey through earthly life and no longer needed once the destination has been reached."
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 202)
As for the doomsayers:
" "Alas for the Law, alas for the Faith, alas for all these calamities! O Brothers in the Faith!
This is surely the end of the world! The Judgment is coming!"
With words such as these they assault the minds of the helpless masses and disturb the hearts of the already bewildered poor, who know nothing of the true state of affairs and the real basis for all such talk, and remain completely unaware of the fact that a thousand selfish purposes are concealed behind the supposedly religious eloquence of certain individuals. They imagine that speakers of this type are motivated by virtuous zeal, when the truth is that such individuals keep up a great hue and cry because they see their own personal ruin in the welfare of the masses, and believe that if the people's eyes are opened, their own light will go out. Only the keenest insight will detect the fact that if the hearts of these individuals were really impelled by righteousness and the fear of God, the fragrance of it would, like musk, be spreading everywhere. Nothing in the world can ever be supported by words alone."
(Abdu'l-Baha, The Secret of Divine Civilization, p. 56)
Today we are in the early stages of a new cycle:
"A new chapter in the life of the planet has been opened. Humanity has attained its maturity, and the race consciousness has awakened to the fact that it must put away the childish things which seemed necessary in the day of the "survival of the fittest." This day "wherein the feet of the people deviate" is to be followed by a glorious to-morrow; for -- "This is a new cycle of human power. All the horizons of the world are luminous and the world will become indeed as a garden and a paradise. It is the hour of unity of the sons of men and of the drawing together of all races and all classes.
"The gift of God to this enlightened age is the knowledge of the oneness of mankind and the fundamental oneness of religion. War shall cease between the nations and by the will of God the most great peace shall come; the world will be seen as a new world and all men will live as brothers."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 12)
Best wishes
Graham
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Permalink Reply by Maynard on -
Soma said:
evolution changes from a mechanical process to a conscious strategy.Thank you, Soma.
Betsy said:
I wonder how consciousness can help people take on something more than the animal.
As only a portion of what I take from Soma's statement, the human capacity is most operational in the vast area between the natural, physical, animal expression of this living earth, and the mystical, esoteric, spiritual experience of the divine. Within this middle space, we have the ability to shape our futures, and as well to shape the futures of others; we have the opportunity to do so with a sense of responsibility, and within a time reference.These can be viewed as the axes (plural of axis) of a three dimensional space, where the origin is self, now, and zero responsibility. Sometimes I think of this third axis as love. These axes extend from self to others, from now to later, and from zero to infinite love or responsibility.
Others have used the two axes of time and space to assert that most peoples thoughts are centered close to the origin of here and now, but it's comfortable to conceive of several more axes than just two. For instance, in addition to here-there we can place ourselves along self-others. And to Soma's statement, there could be an axis from passive toward active participation (which I called "responsibility" above).
Now we could view the origin as the center of a sphere, with so many different balancing vectors that there is no single preferred vector from the center, such as there is from a two or three axis system.
Back to Betsy's question, I like to think about others from a sense of responsibility over a long time reference; and not just some (close) others, but all others. In affirmation of points brought forward in this conversation, competition is antithetical to evolution.
This, by the way in case you don't know, was also Charles Darwin's view, noting that he distinguished human evolution from animal evolution. I commend to all this reference:
http://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/the-new-theory-versus-the-old-story
Namaste,
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Permalink Reply by Soma on
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"But how to present this concept to those who are as yet on the first rungs of the ladder of religion? " Betsy
Betsy that is a good question.I would try to make that person conscious of him/her self.
We are all spiritual aspirants at different levels at different times so we all need to connect in our individual space and time. We are beginners and advanced at the same time. We all need encouragement to continue on our journey that has no distance between where we are now and the unity of everything. I would start where I am as a beginner and express it as going through the first layer of the mind.
If the body is a vehicle for the planet earth it will need a driver. The driver is the first layer of the mind that we can call Everyday Mind. The Everyday Mind is the layer in charge during the waking hours of the day. Through the first layer we have conscious communication with all parts of our body and can respond to any sensation from the five senses. It directs the actions that are executed for example; my arm and hand reach for a pen only after a mental message is sent to the limbs to react and to obey. This is the layer that drives the vehicle of the body through the actions to be performed. Some of our bodily functions don't really need a conscious message to function because they are carried out automatically. We don't mentally have to tell our hearts to pump or our lungs to breath do we? They automatically do the required functions without being told, but they are influenced by our conscious thoughts. That is why we can lower our blood pressure and calm ourselves by mentally becoming aware of our condition and mentally directing internal relaxing messages to our restlessness. Thus, the Everyday Mind along with the second layer of the mind is responsible for the automatic nervous system and its vital functions.
I would continue to show the aspirant that we need to witness the first layer of the mind in the second layer so we can decide what is good for us and what is bad. This practice leads us to the second layer of the mind that we have just used to contemplate what we have read. I would guide the spiritual aspirant through the layers of the mind so the experience of the Spirit can be felt. I don’t see myself as a guide, but I can try to set the mental environment so the Soul will be made known and experienced beyond the mind.I would try to satisfy the intellect with its questions so that it will cease to block the spiritual experience that throws the windows and doors of the mind open to the ever present unity of everything in pure consciousness.
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Permalink Reply by Betsy Whitfill on
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Soma, you may have a direction going here....toward an inner experience...inward to where the Bible tells us is the Kingdom of God (Luke 17:21)... So perhaps there is value in alerting the neophyte hopefully an aspirant, but not necessarily, to Biblical injunctions to look within, trust what is within etc. Then, using the guidance you provided below, begin to draw the neophyte inward and upward?
How might that address the fear that so often forms the bedrock of calling all to "salvation"? The call is to "get saved"...but from what?
Betsy
Soma said:"But how to present this concept to those who are as yet on the first rungs of the ladder of religion? " Betsy
Betsy that is a good question.I would try to make that person conscious of him/her self.
We are all spiritual aspirants at different levels at different times so we all need to connect in our individual space and time. We are beginners and advanced at the same time. We all need encouragement to continue on our journey that has no distance between where we are now and the unity of everything. I would start where I am as a beginner and express it as going through the first layer of the mind.
If the body is a vehicle for the planet earth it will need a driver. The driver is the first layer of the mind that we can call Everyday Mind. The Everyday Mind is the layer in charge during the waking hours of the day. Through the first layer we have conscious communication with all parts of our body and can respond to any sensation from the five senses. It directs the actions that are executed for example; my arm and hand reach for a pen only after a mental message is sent to the limbs to react and to obey. This is the layer that drives the vehicle of the body through the actions to be performed. Some of our bodily functions don't really need a conscious message to function because they are carried out automatically. We don't mentally have to tell our hearts to pump or our lungs to breath do we? They automatically do the required functions without being told, but they are influenced by our conscious thoughts. That is why we can lower our blood pressure and calm ourselves by mentally becoming aware of our condition and mentally directing internal relaxing messages to our restlessness. Thus, the Everyday Mind along with the second layer of the mind is responsible for the automatic nervous system and its vital functions.
I would continue to show the aspirant that we need to witness the first layer of the mind in the second layer so we can decide what is good for us and what is bad. This practice leads us to the second layer of the mind that we have just used to contemplate what we have read. I would guide the spiritual aspirant through the layers of the mind so the experience of the Spirit can be felt. I don’t see myself as a guide, but I can try to set the mental environment so the Soul will be made known and experienced beyond the mind.I would try to satisfy the intellect with its questions so that it will cease to block the spiritual experience that throws the windows and doors of the mind open to the ever present unity of everything in pure consciousness.
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