Heaven and Hell
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Spencer Perdriau on
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Good question Paul. But quite simply, most of humanity identify with separation, and in this identification of the temporal there appears no divine essential lasting (eternal) sacredness in it, to say nothing about the human fact that most of us do not "truly" know (or realize) that God pervades all. It is the Unity of God that makes all things sacred, Paul, certainly not the lower nature of pluralism itself in its own dualistic nature alone. It is the Non-Dual Unified Principle of reality that is essentially sacred and connects all things into The Divine, thus making all things sacred, essentially. But so many of us fail to appreciate this. Pluralism is not sacred in itself of its own nature, but only by the essential sacredness and Unity Of God which keeps it all running, all together.
... Note: The Cause can exist without the result, but the result cannot exist without The Cause (The Divine - God). That is why The Higher principle of God-Unity is always greater than the lower dualistic principle of pluralism/division.
... To answer your question in summary, Paul, we need to know first that God (boundless Eternal Consciousness) "actually" exists, before we can appreciate that all things (pluralism) is sacred.
Paul Christopher Martin said:
I am curious, Spencer, why cannot pluralism be essentially sacred if God pervades all?
Spencer Perdriau said:
Always remember.... Unity (not pluralism) is the essential sacredness and divine principle of all life and reality in total.
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... To answer your question simply in summary, Paul, we need to know first of all that God (boundless Eternal Consciousness) "actually" exists, before we can say and appreciate that all things (pluralism) are "essentially" sacred. "Essential" being the key word there ;)
Paul Christopher Martin said:
I am curious, Spencer, why cannot pluralism be essentially sacred if God pervades all?
Spencer Perdriau said:
Always remember.... Unity (not pluralism) is the essential sacredness and divine principle of all life and reality in total.
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Permalink Reply by Marilyn Louise Copeland on -
I have not long finished reading a book by Jack Kornfield which explores this very topic, called " After the Ecstasy, the Laundry" - How The Heart Grows Wise On The Spiritual Path.I highly recommend it as it is full of stories of the lives & challenges of many spiritually enlightened people from various backgrounds. Having a profound experience of mystical awareness/ expanded consciousness/ unity with the Divine is not the end of the story. There's no Enlightened retirement ! There can still be struggle, depression, sickness, relationship dramas etc. that follows a peak experience of Reality. It tells how these people dealt with those challenges after those experiences. A very inspiring & magnificent book.
Blessings, Marilyn
Spencer Perdriau said:Good question Paul. But quite simply, most of humanity identify with separation, and in this identification of the temporal there appears no divine essential lasting (eternal) sacredness in it, to say nothing about the human fact that most of us do not "truly" know (or realize) that God pervades all. It is the Unity of God that makes all things sacred, Paul, certainly not the lower nature of pluralism itself in its own dualistic nature alone. It is the Non-Dual Unified Principle of reality that is essentially sacred and connects all things into The Divine, thus making all things sacred, essentially. But so many of us fail to appreciate this. Pluralism is not sacred in itself of its own nature, but only by the essential sacredness and Unity Of God which keeps it all running, all together.
... Note: The Cause can exist without the result, but the result cannot exist without The Cause (The Divine - God). That is why The Higher principle of God-Unity is always greater than the lower dualistic principle of pluralism/division.
... To answer your question in summary, Paul, we need to know first that God (boundless Eternal Consciousness) "actually" exists, before we can appreciate that all things (pluralism) is sacred.
Paul Christopher Martin said:
I am curious, Spencer, why cannot pluralism be essentially sacred if God pervades all?
Spencer Perdriau said:Always remember.... Unity (not pluralism) is the essential sacredness and divine principle of all life and reality in total.
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Yes! That's lovely, Marylin. We still have to get on with life, no matter how many times we are graced with the peak experience of mystic union. Contrary to so much misconceptions about "it", mystic union is nonetheless spiritually liberating for us, and very much provides us with greater lasting hope about all things, but life still goes on, and here, it can still be rather hash and difficult, even for the mystic. But deeper in him/herself, the mystic is able to bear such things always knowing there is a greater divine peace and truth behind it all, no matter how difficult it "may" present in the immediate here and now. In short, God is always with them, through the good and the bad (as with all else, unknown to That).
Marilyn Louise Copeland said:
I have not long finished reading a book by Jack Kornfield which explores this very topic, called " After the Ecstasy, the Laundry" - How The Heart Grows Wise On The Spiritual Path.I highly recommend it as it is full of stories of the lives & challenges of many spiritually enlightened people from various backgrounds. Having a profound experience of mystical awareness/ expanded consciousness/ unity with the Divine is not the end of the story. There's no Enlightened retirement ! There can still be struggle, depression, sickness, relationship dramas etc. that follows a peak experience of Reality. It tells how these people dealt with those challenges after those experiences. A very inspiring & magnificent book.
Blessings, Marilyn
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Permalink Reply by Ron Krumpos on -
In your reply to the last comment, please click on "Reply to Discussion" at the bottom of the screen. There is no need to repeat the previous person's statement when it it directly above. Thanks.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Christopher Martin on -
Thanks Spencer.
I acknowledge what you say, and can agree with it, to an extent and with qualifications.
Pluralism, or variegation (which remains to be defined here), need not necessarily equate with division or separation, and can be inherently sacred. If God is like a weave that threads through all reality - the universe as a cloak of God - then it is indicative of the structural pervasiveness of divine being. That being so, we might say that multitude is of the same kind as unity.
If one accepts the Indian view, as set out in some systems, and most especially in the Shaiva philosophy, that the effect exists in the cause as a (topological) transformation, then the world of difference is as meaningful as the world of non-difference, perceived or realized, because it all dwells in the same nature, which is God.
I say all this with the context of this interfaith web site in mind. The various perspectives expressed on the way to becoming with God can be celebrated as valuable in themselves without reducing them to a purported common denominator.
Paul
Spencer Perdriau said:Good question Paul. But quite simply, most of humanity identify with separation, and in this identification of the temporal there appears no divine essential lasting (eternal) sacredness in it, to say nothing about the human fact that most of us do not "truly" know (or realize) that God pervades all. It is the Unity of God that makes all things sacred, Paul, certainly not the lower nature of pluralism itself in its own dualistic nature alone. It is the Non-Dual Unified Principle of reality that is essentially sacred and connects all things into The Divine, thus making all things sacred, essentially. But so many of us fail to appreciate this. Pluralism is not sacred in itself of its own nature, but only by the essential sacredness and Unity Of God which keeps it all running, all together.
... Note: The Cause can exist without the result, but the result cannot exist without The Cause (The Divine - God). That is why The Higher principle of God-Unity is always greater than the lower dualistic principle of pluralism/division.
... To answer your question in summary, Paul, we need to know first that God (boundless Eternal Consciousness) "actually" exists, before we can appreciate that all things (pluralism) is sacred.
Paul Christopher Martin said:
I am curious, Spencer, why cannot pluralism be essentially sacred if God pervades all?
Spencer Perdriau said:
Always remember.... Unity (not pluralism) is the essential sacredness and divine principle of all life and reality in total.
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Nicely and eloquently said, Paul. The wave upon the ocean analogy is my favourite description of our individual yet unified connection to God. While the wave (soul) "appears" distinct and unique from all else, it is still "always" connected to all via the greater ocean source (God).
"We are all in 'It' together."
Mystic Blessings from Spence :))
Paul Christopher Martin said:
Thanks Spencer.
I acknowledge what you say, and can agree with it, to an extent and with qualifications.
Pluralism, or variegation (which remains to be defined here), need not necessarily equate with division or separation, and can be inherently sacred. If God is like a weave that threads through all reality - the universe as a cloak of God - then it is indicative of the structural pervasiveness of divine being. That being so, we might say that multitude is of the same kind as unity.
If one accepts the Indian view, as set out in some systems, and most especially in the Shaiva philosophy, that the effect exists in the cause as a (topological) transformation, then the world of difference is as meaningful as the world of non-difference, perceived or realized, because it all dwells in the same nature, which is God.
I say all this with the context of this interfaith web site in mind. The various perspectives expressed on the way to becoming with God can be celebrated as valuable in themselves without reducing them to a purported common denominator.
Paul
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Permalink Reply by Ron Krumpos on
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Again, In your reply to the last comment, please click on "Reply to Discussion" at the bottom of the screen. There is no need to repeat the previous person's statement when it it directly above. Thanks.
When you repeat each other's comments, they take up too much space on each page of the discussion on PN. We are now on page 3 and few people will go back to read pages 2 and 1.
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Ron, no need. Doing this shows continuity to who you are talking to.
Mystic Blessings to you!
Ron Krumpos said:Again, In your reply to the last comment, please click on "Reply to Discussion" at the bottom of the screen. There is no need to repeat the previous person's statement when it it directly above. Thanks.
When you repeat each other's comments, they take up too much space on each page of the discussion on PN. We are now on page 3 and few people will go back to read pages 2 and 1.
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