Unity (not pluralism) is the True Ultimate Nature of Reality
True religion and spirituality is always based on togetherness and Unity (The True Ultimate nature of reality), certainly not pluralism, difference and separation (the false nature of reality). At the surface of life, reality may "seem" separate, different and varied, but this is only a temporal illusion due to how our brain, perception and senses register reality, both inner and outer. Ultimately and essentially, all reality is comprised of the very same matter, components, forces of nature and Eternal Lifeforce of boundless subjective Consciousness, which hold it ever together in complete-total Unity - always. It is all just one Big Being & LifeForce in total.
True Religion and Divinity is about worshiping the common Greater Ideal of all life that holds us and everything all together in oneness and completeness, certainly not worshiping the lower principle of reality such as pluralism, division and separateness here at this relative level of fleeting-temporal life. To worship this lower false principle of reality over the true nature of Unified Reality (which is always) is a very sure way of continuing Life and religion in continuous uncertainty and conflict in separation and division, rather than acceptance, togetherness and Unity. This inverted (miss)belief and practice, by spiritual definition, is profanation against The Lord Our God.
So if you truly care about true religion and true divinity of all Life as One Life, then I ask you to respectfully and reverently stop promoting and worshiping the lower nature of pluralism over the Higher Nature of Unity in Spirit.
Mystic Blessings from Spencer
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joel Sanford on
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Spencer,
I have some more questions about the practical pursuit of unity.
In your reply on Sep 27, you stated, ". . . we are all equal in spirit, which is only possible by being in a greater boundless Unified Consciousness." What exactly do you mean by "equal in spirit."?
Also, if I understand you correctly, Unity of consciousness seems to be the main goal worth pursuing. How is that acheived? What is the benefit? How do you know it ought to be pursued?
Joel
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Permalink Reply by Spencer Perdriau on
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If the Nature of God is eternally complete and ever-present in us all, then yes we are all equal in That Nature - it is the Source/Foundation of all Life that makes us all perfectly equal in essence, certainly not us. In God there is no preferences. We are all "in" "Him". Unity with God is the goal of all life and of us all. As the gentle mystic of the Bealtles, George Harrison, proclaimed on his deathbed - "The greatest achievement of a human being, above all things in life, is to realize [reunite] with God."
My short films The Eternal Presence and Mystic Unity explain this as best I can at present...
The Eternal Presence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Ie9ZRqwxo
Mystic Unity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo6UVqpLm0o&feature=related
Realizing Unity in God brings a constant unshakable content upon us in life that always endures, no matter what comes our way. good, bad, indifferent. Do you know of anything else in temporal dualistic (pluralistic) life that can do that for us, and always as a constant???
Joel Sanford said:
Spencer,
I have some more questions about the practical pursuit of unity.
In your reply on Sep 27, you stated, ". . . we are all equal in spirit, which is only possible by being in a greater boundless Unified Consciousness." What exactly do you mean by "equal in spirit."?
Also, if I understand you correctly, Unity of consciousness seems to be the main goal worth pursuing. How is that acheived? What is the benefit? How do you know it ought to be pursued?
Joel
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Spencer,
I do not know of anything in temporal dualistic life that can bring an unshakable content upon someone. If that is your experience with realizing unity in God, then it seems to be of great personal benefit. However, I don't believe that one should rely on such a feeling as definitive proof of the merit of a particular philosophy. I don't mean to imply that you are doing so. I just want to point that out.
That being said, I am wondering a couple things.
First, what sources are you using for your theology? You have given an account of your own mystical experiences, but you have made some statements about the nature of God and the universe that seem to me to be drawn from other sources.
Secondly, I still do not understand how you have developed a moral framework based on your view of reality. As I understand it, everything in the universe is ultimately unified in one life force. If this is the case, why is it moral to love other people? If individuality and pluralism are merely illusory, and every individual is truly just a part of a greater universal being, then what obligation do I have to the rest of humanity? Would you say that individual experiences of pleasure and pain are illusory too? If so, then I see no reason to treat other people compassionately or justly.
Joel
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If everything is sustained by an all pervasive Life-Force that unifies everything in its all encompassing boundless being, then why would it go out of its way not to care and look after all that in love, since it all comes from that Life-Force to start with? Are you suggesting the ideal of love is a mere human concept/experience, Joel, or can it also, far eternally, apply to the greater scale of things, as far as Divine Consciousness is concerned, far beyond what we could ever imagine for our own limited mind? I find it so completely arrogant that we always use our own human capacity as the universal measuring stick. The are far greater things in reality, both physically and spiritually, than us and our capacity.
Experiencing God goes beyond all personal boundaries and personal perception. It literally overtakes us, "envelopes" us. It is not "our stuff" Joel, we are overtaken by that greater truer nature. So no, I do not agree with you about not relying on such a definitive feeling of connection in being (not mind) with The All. All things in temporal life are fleeting and questionable. Not so with God. God is the one true thing that is constant and will always last (in our life, and beyond). This is what true faith and devotion towards The Lord is all about. Where temporal things may and do let us down, God never will.
My experiences of union came first. I was then very comforted and "relieved" to discover that such things have been happening to human beings since the beginning of time, from what I read in our worlds scriptures. The world’s scriptures have only confirmed and endorsed my own experiences, and my further realizations and acquired intuitive knowledge from that initiation years ago now.
PS: Are you asking all this of me out of sincere inquiry and greater understanding/appreciation, or do you already know the answer for yourself, and merely testing me here???
Joel Sanford said:Spencer,
I do not know of anything in temporal dualistic life that can bring an unshakable content upon someone. If that is your experience with realizing unity in God, then it seems to be of great personal benefit. However, I don't believe that one should rely on such a feeling as definitive proof of the merit of a particular philosophy. I don't mean to imply that you are doing so. I just want to point that out.
That being said, I am wondering a couple things.
First, what sources are you using for your theology? You have given an account of your own mystical experiences, but you have made some statements about the nature of God and the universe that seem to me to be drawn from other sources.
Secondly, I still do not understand how you have developed a moral framework based on your view of reality. As I understand it, everything in the universe is ultimately unified in one life force. If this is the case, why is it moral to love other people? If individuality and pluralism are merely illusory, and every individual is truly just a part of a greater universal being, then what obligation do I have to the rest of humanity? Would you say that individual experiences of pleasure and pain are illusory too? If so, then I see no reason to treat other people compassionately or justly.
Joel
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Joel,
I have just read with far more attention your last comment here, which I find somewhat scary and disturbing. If any one of us comes out of illusory nature and taste the "real-true" greater nature of life, then it is our responsibility, even far more so, in a devotional and honoured way towards service of The Lord & His All, to help and encourage "all" our fellow brothers and sisters back home into liberation/salvation of True Life. We do not "rest-up" when we have hit the peak and crown of Life. No. It is our duty even more-so to help and inspire others, in the most proper and caring way possible.
Mystic Blessings from Spence :))
Joel Sanford said:Secondly, I still do not understand how you have developed a moral framework based on your view of reality. As I understand it, everything in the universe is ultimately unified in one life force. If this is the case, why is it moral to love other people? If individuality and pluralism are merely illusory, and every individual is truly just a part of a greater universal being, then what obligation do I have to the rest of humanity? Would you say that individual experiences of pleasure and pain are illusory too? If so, then I see no reason to treat other people compassionately or justly.
Joel
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PS Joel: I also thought of this quite simply too for greater appreciation --- If you were aware, deeper in your self, that all things are (ultimately and essentially) a part of your self, would it be your "natural" inclination to help and support and to be kind to your extended self, or would you be inclined to do harm and violation to your extended self, always remembering that it is all a part of you in the first place? Do you see what I am saying here? That is why "true" Unity is based on acceptance and love, not conflict and hate... In the same way, in the Absolute scheme of things, why would God go out of His way to hate and/or condemn any part of His expressed (manifest) self??? As Divine and Holy God Is, I certainly do not believe this is His real nature, but only that of Truth, Love & Bliss.
I hope this helps for better clarity and understanding between us and our perspectives on such.
Mystic Blessings from Spence :))
Joel Sanford said:Secondly, I still do not understand how you have developed a moral framework based on your view of reality. As I understand it, everything in the universe is ultimately unified in one life force. If this is the case, why is it moral to love other people? If individuality and pluralism are merely illusory, and every individual is truly just a part of a greater universal being, then what obligation do I have to the rest of humanity? Would you say that individual experiences of pleasure and pain are illusory too? If so, then I see no reason to treat other people compassionately or justly.
Joel
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Spencer and Cristen,
First of all, I am sorry I am so slow to respond. I assure you it is not due to a lack of interest.
I suppose it would help for me to explain my perspective a bit more. I am absolutely sincere in all of my questions. However, I have developed my own philosophy based on the evidence I have collected over my life. In a word, I would descibe myself as Christian. I believe that the Bible, as it exists today, is one of the most reliable and accurate sources we have for understanding God. This belief is based on evidence of its historical and scientific consistency, thematic and factual intraconsistency, and my own experiential and logical scrutiny. I believe that Christ's death on the Cross is what allows humanity to be saved from eternal death and, instead, engage in greater communion with God. I believe that God calls us all to love one another, work for justice and mercy, and demonstrate our faithfulness to Him.
These are all things that I believe. However, I would not say they are things I know for certain. I believe this distinction is extremely important. I recognize that my religious beliefs, and all my beliefs for that matter, are based on evidence. I rely on emotional, physical, and logical evidence for everything I believe to be true. I am well aware -- painfully at times -- that I could be wrong about any one of my beliefs. This is because they are based on evidence and, as such, have not been proved to me, nor are they proveable.
So, in answer to your question in your first response on Monday, I would say that I am asking questions out of sincere inquiry. I trully want to understand your perspective more, and I believe there is a possibility you are right, at least for the most part, about the nature of God and reality. However, I have my own beliefs based on a wealth of evidence and scrutiny, and I am not going to adopt a new philosophy without putting it through that same level of scrutiny.
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I gather from everything you have posted, that you rely heavily on your personal experiences of Unity as evidence for the truth of your philosophy. In fact, you seem utterly convinced that these experiences are proof of its validity. You must understand why, as someone who does not share your experiences, I am skeptical. The way you have described it, you experienced a feeling of being enveloped by and connected with the All of the universe. From my perspective, this "feeling" could easily have been just that -- a feeling. There is no guarantee that you actually were enveloped by and connected with the All. Furthermore, you seem to be saying that, without experiencing this for myself, I won't really understand the motivation behind your moral framework -- that it is more of a desire or inclination than a duty or obligation.
I suspect that you will see my assessment of your views as, at least somewhat, inaccurate. If this is the case, please try to clarify for me what I am misunderstanding. I would also appreciate it if you could answer the following questions for me. How do you know that your mystical experiences were genuine? Why could your feelings of connectedness have not been illusory themselves? Is this something you would say you know with 100% certainty, or does it require a degree of faith or belief?
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In answer to your final post on Monday:
Since I have not been made aware that all things are (ultimately and essentially) a deeper part of myself, I cannot know with any certainty what my natural inclinations would be in response. Logically thinking about this scenario, I don't see a reason that I would be inclined toward anything at all, love or hate. The way I see it, if everything is ultimately just one all-encompassing interconnected thing and all individuality and plurality is merely illusory, then it would make no difference how any "part" of that whole treats any other "part". At the most, this would rearange the way the parts make up the whole. However, since ultimately there are no parts, only the illusion of parts, then there would ultimately be no change to the whole. Whether I were to kill another being or sacrifice my life that another being might live, the all-encompassing Life Force would remain the same all-encompassing Life Force. To put it another way, if individual existence is illusory, then individual action is, by extension, illusory and, therefore, without consequence. Of course, as stated earlier, this is how it plays out logically in my mind, as I have not experienced it first-hand. Please let me know if there is somewhere that I am misunderstanding you.
Joel
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Permalink Reply by Paul Rodgers on
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My big question would be what is the differance? We live in a world of illusions and bending reality. For instance did any of you dream last night? Was that an illusion. I wonder if our perseption of the illusion is nothing more than illusion itself. If reality is a creative experiance then it is much like making a line in the sand, it is there but when a wave or the wind washes over it it not. Then we are left with the choice of making the line again. To me the only thing that is absolute is the will.
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Cristen,
Thanks for your reply. It is very encouraging to me. I do not have any blog posts. In fact, this is the only online discussion in which I have taken part so far. I am very interested in and love discussing philosophy and religion, and I hope to do more of it in the future.
I am wondering if you could describe the experience that has led you to your current beliefs. Would you describe it as a feeling? or is it something beyond description?
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Hi Joel, I will try and explain in a different way what this Unity is like that Christen and I speak of...
In such a direct experience of mystic union with The Divine and "Its" All, all boundaries of individuality are completely lost, and "we" - if there is any remote hint of "I-ness" left (according to the intensity of that union) - it is totally beyond all your own "unique" person "stuff" (of and about it too). You are literally taken completely over, "enveloped" by The Divine, and are in His greater order and knowing, not yours - "Thy Will not my will be done". Further still, the totality of the experience is so profound that it completely renders your individual mind "void" because the experience of totality itself is infinitely-eternally greater than the temporal mind's finite capacity. HOWEVER, our deeper being is what is being reconnected back to God and The All (and becomes boundless), and it is in the fullness of being (in this unified state of totality) where this true ultimate experience is appreciated for what it "actually" is.
As I have said many times in the past, all true realization is from and kept in being, not mind.
I hope this helps.
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